Apr 12, 2017
Jan, Jim, and their guests discuss the importance of
trust for teams, how to build it, and what roles vulnerability and
shared experiences play in creating trust. Also, is there a
disconnect from people being motivated by autonomy as an individual,
and the need for selflessness when it comes to what’s best for the
team?
Jim and Jan are joined by Isaiah Burkhart and Clay
Othic from past Crucible expeditions; from DKS Associates, Jim
Peters, Jim Strain, and Chris Maciejewski; curiosity expert Becki
Salzman; Intel PhD/executive Candi Cook; Mara Othic, special
operations veteran and currently in law enforcement; former Ranger
turned entrepreneur, Kyle Morris; and senior executives Ken
Schrader and Ed Stoner – both with stellar business and academic
backgrounds!
Key Takeaways
[1:55] The first Leadership Podcast dinner party, in
Portland, Oregon, starts with a discussion of trust. In The
Five Dysfunctions of a Team, Patrick Lencioni resolves the
dysfunctions with a foundation of trust, leading to healthy
disagreement, commitment, accountability, and results. Trust
provides strength.
[2:59] Daniel Pink, in Drive, says to
motivate people, you need mastery, autonomy, and purpose. Members
of a team need to be selfless, and let trust reign. Zack, the
videographer on the first Crucible, establishes trust with locals
in dangerous places through interviews, references, and
triangulation.
[5:57] Trust may be tied to interpersonal skills, or
organizational design, or both. Building trust takes time. On the
crucible, Clay Othic had pointed out the Point of No Return (PONR),
and Jan realized how much they needed to rely on each other. Trust
was mandatory. In business, a goal large enough may create a
circumstance of mandatory trust.
[7:25] Jim Strain, of DKS, in watching the Patagonia
Crucible documentary, was struck by the transition from level
ground, where everyone was independent, to crossing a glacier,
where they had to rope up. The glacier crossing required a higher
level of awareness, communication, and trust, to work as a team. He
then used that transitional analogy of roping up, in an actual
business structural change at his firm.
[11:22] Isaiah Burkhart participated in the Patagonia
Crucible, mostly out in front. Every day they held an After Action
Review (AAR), which allowed each team member to process the
mistakes they had made. Everyone was comfortable to make
suggestions, which helped build trust. To be a really great team,
people have to receive correction for the good of all.
[13:36] Becki Salzman was curious what would have
happened if the PONR had been on day one, before the team had
learned to know each other. Clay Othic referred to competence in
the basics, shared by the military members. With competence, comes
confidence, which leads to trust. He believes they could have
observed enough in 30 minutes to have managed the PONR on day
one.
[16:14] Circumstances are important for establishing
trust. Jim relates how, when he was tired on day two, Clay Othic
stood up for Jim’s need to carry his own load up the hill, and then
stayed by Jim, reciting the Ranger Creed while they climbed. Clay’s
outreach inspired Jim to find strength and manage his burdens up
the glacier. To honor Clay, Jim toasts him with Three Rangers
Whiskey.
[20:17] Clay speaks on the Three Rangers Foundation,
a veterans nonprofit based on the brotherhood and friendship Clay
found early in his Ranger career. You always have the back of your
military family, even years later. After 20 years, brother Ranger
John Collett approached Clay for help. John was distilling whiskey,
and wanted to support a foundation for Rangers. They created the
Three Rangers Foundation.
[21:39] 100% of the money donated to Three Rangers
Foundation goes to the veterans they assist. The Foundation staff
works without pay. All administrative costs of the foundation are
paid for by Three Rangers Whiskey, and a portion of the profits
from the sale of Three Rangers Whiskey is also donated to the
foundation. Clay explains the four symbols on the bottle label,
starting with the Gold Star.
[25:16] Ken Schrader gives his experiences of turning
around small companies, where trust is mainly absent. Ken
discovered most people just wanted to be heard, and to be
understood as people. As they told their stories to Ken, and he
authentically listened, trust grew. Ken turns the discussion to
explore how trust grew on the Crucible.
[27:12] Pairin behavioral assessments were
administered to all before and after the Crucible. At the
beginning, trust wasn’t high, but self-confidence was. After the
Crucible, there was a movement away from individuality and toward
teamwork. In addition to behaviors, the desire to be a team player
also improved. For the two weeks, no one complained about anyone.
[28:46] Isaiah talks about his experiences with
trust, and how his trust was fairly low before he got acquainted
with the non-veterans.
[31:35] Becky suggests exploring uncommon
commonalities to build trust. She illustrates it with a story of
how she marched on Washington, and created a motorcycle interest
commonality with Bikers for Trump, that allowed them to take a
selfie with her, although of a different political stand.
[33:42] There will be a Crucible in September, with
an equal number of men and women, hoping to explore unconscious
assumptions made around gender issues, and how to apply more
diversity to business, to make better decisions. Candi Cook will be
one of the team, climbing Sacagawea Peak.
[34:23] Jim Peters is trying to relate the military
family to the business world. You can go a whole day in the office
without interacting with any of your coworkers. He comments on the
After Action Reports from the Crucible. We need to have that AAR in
the business world, to slow down and give feedback. It depends on
making time, making it about the other person, and seeking to
understand.
[36:03] Jim notes that in business there is generally
only an AAR after an absolute train wreck. No one talks about
normal activities, even if they could have gone better. You don’t
get better if you don’t have a feedback loop. If you don’t know if
you’re meeting expectations, you’ll never exceed expectations. This
is the role of a leader. Jim and Jan create feedback loops for
themselves.
[39:04] Isaiah talks about the many leaders he has
had, in the military, and now in the fire service. He has seen
fantastic leaders, and some that could have made some
self-adjustments and changed an entire organization. The leader
must foster an environment where trust is a key component. He tells
a story of an unsympathetic leader who eliminated trust
immediately.
[42:16] Chris Maciejewski comments on developing
staff, and creating new independent project managers. Relating to
the roping up concept, he talks to managers about the difference
between leadership and directing. Chris discusses the career path
with staff. Getting to project manager is a hard achievement.
Directing staff does not develop their decision-making abilities.
Working with them, does.
[44:48] Clay says Isaiah’s story shows that trust is
built through shared challenge. Leaders can’t always be present for
the experience, and must give task and purpose, but they can choose
to lead, or just to manage. He answers Becki’s question about
gender dynamics. His wife Mara is also special operations, and she
would have had some effect on the dynamic, but she would have been
tight with the team.
[49:04] Jim summarizes: Trust is the foundation of a
team, the foundation of relationships, it takes a long time to
earn, and it can be gone in the flash of an eye. Leaders need to
give trust to get it. Don’t beat people down for mistakes; help
them learn, and grow. He opens the floor for Lighting Round
comments.
Books Mentioned in This Episode
The Five Dysfunctions of a Team: A Leadership Fable, by
Patrick Lencioni
Drive: The Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us, by
Daniel Pink
Website: TheLeadershipPodcast.com
Website: Leadership Podcast
Academy
Website: ThreeRangersFoundation.org
Website: ThreeRangers.com