Mar 4, 2020
Jim and Jan sit down with Dan
Pink in the offices of the McChrystal Group to discuss all things
leadership. Dan shares his
thoughts on cognitive bias, A/B testing of leadership practices,
soft-skills, and how to move from blaming personality to better
understanding how design drives patterns of behavior.
Due to unforeseen
circumstances, General Stan
McChrystal was not able to join the discussion as
[3:15] Dan believes we are
slowly reconceiving different notions of leadership and different
notions of how organizations are run.
[8:40] We have the ability to
communicate to the world and yet we are lonelier than
[10:16] Dan wonders when the
concept of ‘leadership’ first emerged.
[11:55] How can leaders deal
with cognitive bias? As human beings, we are riddled with flaws
and by simply being aware of that, it can help you through the
decision making process as you begin to ask yourself a series of
testing is critical in any
leadership role, but there are some leaders who are too afraid to
test out ‘B’ and have it fail.
[20:45] With so many
distractions out there, Dan understands how difficult it is to have
our minds be focused on the present. This is why he has made a
conscious effort to delete social media apps and other distractions
off of his computer.
[23:25] Is your organization
suffering from bad behaviors or simply bad design? In order for you
to be a good leader as well as a good designer, be aware of your
surroundings. Did an interaction or customer experience go well for
you? Ask yourself why and take note so that you can implement it
into your organization.
[31:25] As we get older, our
processing power decreases. If you can’t speed up the processing
power of an individual, can you do it as an organization? Dan isn’t
sure he has the correct answer to this yet.
[35:45] Our education system is
designed for the convenience of the system and it is not tailored
to the education of the people. Schools will say their goal is to
teach people how to learn, but the system, unfortunately, doesn’t
allow for that.
[41:45] How much has genuine
leadership changed over the years? Dan thinks at the structural
level, it’s changed very little.
[44:00] Effective leaders don’t
rule with an iron fist. In fact, it’s the soft
skills that often go
unnoticed. For example, they have humility, curiosity, and
[47:00] Dan believes that the
future of leadership will involve teaching others
how to think.
- “Am I
looking for things that only confirm my existing beliefs and am I
discarding things that challenge my existing beliefs?”
you’re a leader who says I don’t want to test out ‘B’ because it’s
a failure, you don’t understand experiments.”
- “Instead of relying on my willpower and
fortitude, neither of which is deep, I change the architecture. I
think that's the solution for leaders.”
- “Collective intelligence at an organizational
level is, at some level, a knowledge management
have all the content in the world to develop leaders. What’s
missing is context.”
- “These tests that schools provide are easily
hackable and so these kids got good at hacking tests, but the real
world is not a hackable exercise.”
Where to follow Dan Pink
Resources and Books Mentioned
When: The Scientific Secrets of
Perfect Timing, by
Daniel H. Pink
A Whole New Mind: Why
Right-Brainers Will Rule the Future, by Daniel H. Pink
Drive: The Surprising Truth
About What Motivates Us, by Daniel H. Pink
To Sell is Human: The
Surprising Truth About Moving Others, by Daniel H. Pink
Free Agent Nation: The Future
of Working for Yourself, by Daniel H. Pink
- Leaders: Myth and Reality,
by Jason Mangone, Jeff
and Stanley A.
Team Of Teams: New Rules of
Engagement for a Complex World, by General Stanley A.
My Share of the Task: A
Memoir, by General
Stanley A. McChrystal
Rediscovering the Secrets to Creating Lasting Value,
by Bill George
Courage: The Backbone of
Leadership, by Gus Lee
with Diane Elliott-Lee
- Everybody Lies: Big Data, New Data, and What
the Internet Can Tell Us About Who We Really Are,
Successful Aging: A
Neuroscientist Explores the Power and Potential of Our
by Daniel Levitin
- “The Lesson to Unlearn,” by Paul
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