Nov 30, 2022
This episode is about the
importance of finding the underlying causes for today’s common
leadership challenges. It’s about not making the mistake of
treating symptoms versus the underlying root cause. Learn how
curiosity can inspire and provide insight. Often, the objective,
analytic thinking that propelled you to the C-suite now needs to be
paired with intuition and conceptualization for you to see the
trends and patterns of issues. If you’re not a CEO, you can learn
to think like one and increase your value to the organization.
Listen to the end for the listener challenge!
https://bit.ly/TLP-335
Key Takeaways
[1:26] This week’s topic:
focusing on the problem. Jim recently talked to a client who had
set a goal. The goal was a solution to a problem, for example,
buying a new system that would run the company and fix everything.
While talking about the solution, the client was not talking enough
about the problem. Solving the problem is the goal. Does this
solution, or another solution, solve the problem?
[3:01] Jim thinks this is
important because as consultants and coaches, Jan and Jim’s job is
to dig into the problem, not just provide a solution. Jim worked
with Bard Press on a book, and his contact, Todd, kept reminding
him to focus on the problem. Jan and Jim recently interviewed Dre
Baldwin who also said to focus on the problem! So this is a timely
topic.
[3:47] Jan quotes guest Brian
Caulfield saying, “Sell the problem, not the solution,” as the most
quotable quote of the podcast. When people look at problems, they
often neglect to look for the root cause. They come up with an
“either this or that” solution; the best solution might be “this
and that.” Jan refers to Peter Senge and the Fifth Discipline,
using systems thinking to figure out the problem.
[4:45] The Pairin Behavioral
Surveys that Jan has run find that 95% of the time, people score
very high in Objective-Analytical and very low in
Intuitive-Conceptual. Intuitive-Conceptual is about understanding
the root causes of things and being open-minded.
[6:18] When Jim does sales
training, he goes back to Sandler for the Dummy Curve. When you get
a new salesperson, who doesn’t know a lot about the product, but
they’re successful right away, for two reasons: They don’t know
enough about the product to talk about the product, so they ask a
lot of questions centered around the problem. That creates an
affinity with the customer.
[7:48] Does the product solve
the problem? No one cares how the product works if it solves the
problem. Focus on the problem. When you don’t know how the product
works, you have no choice but to focus on the problem. You ask
questions that define the problem better. If the sales force knows
too much, they want to show their mastery and talk more. That ruins
the sale.
[8:25] The Dummy Curve is that
you come in, you have success, and then you lose it the more you
learn. Jim coaches leaders not to train new salespeople too much on
the product. Talk to them about the problem that their product
solves. Coach them on the business problems people have that invite
your product and solution. Have them be more curious about
those.
[9:25] Jan sees this episode as
emphasizing the power of the question. Jan has been coaching about
coaching and asking difficult questions. A better approach to a
difficult conversation is “Hey, Jim, how do you think that meeting
went?” rather than “Hey, Jim, you know what you did in that
meeting?” The higher up we go, we need to be better about the
questions.
[10:16] Jan coached someone
about presenting to a high level in the organization. The presenter
was rehearsing what to say to influence a decision. Jan asked,
“What objections and resistances do you expect?” They discussed how
answers to objections could be questions and they considered sample
questions. Questions don’t have power unless you’re curious about
the problem and the root cause.
[11:40] Talk about task conflict
and not personal conflict. Depersonalize the difficult
conversation. Focus on the issues. What is the problem that we need
to solve together? Jan brings up an example of heating service
people who got to the root cause of his problem. If you understand
the root cause, you can at least put a bandage on it. Without knowing the root
cause, that’s about all you can do.
[14:47] Some reasons people are
content with a bandage instead of getting to the root of the
problem are that they don’t have time, they don’t care, competing
priorities, or having so many problems crossing their desks that
they don’t notice how big one specific problem is. They don’t have
curiosity, or they have a bias toward quick action. Jan compares it
to being seen by a dismissive doctor.
[18:01] Jim refers to his
upcoming book. The first part of the book is about diagnosing
business symptoms. We sometimes mistake the symptom for the
problem. Jim shares a story from the book about his father, having
abdominal pain in his 60s. The doctor refused to look at the pain
as the problem but recognized it as a symptom of an abdominal
aortic aneurysm. She saved his life with surgery.
[22:08] Jan explains the levers
of change: people, incentives, structure, and process. Leaders are
rewarded for being problem solvers so the incentive is to solve
problems fast. At a certain point, when they start taking on high
levels of responsibility, the job shifts from doing to thinking.
Jan tells people to think like a designer. Look at each lever. It’s
not always an issue for coaching to solve.
[24:25] If you’re not the CEO
but you want to be a valuable employee, think like a CEO. Help the
CEO see what they might not be seeing. CEOs need to look at the
broad performance of the organization and see the patterns, then
dig and understand what’s behind those patterns. Past guest, Jim
Gilmore, author of Look, wrote about seeing through binoculars, field
glass, and microscope. CEOs need a field glass.
[26:35] People are worried about
budgeting for the next year and they’re all worried about low sales
numbers. They’re looking for things to cut from the budget instead
of asking what it would take to increase their sales for the next
year. Jan always asks where the assumptions behind the budget are
coming from.
[28:07] Jan notes that scaling
means doing more with less by getting more productive and becoming
more efficient. Jim asserts that the companies that don’t panic
during downtimes but invest wisely can grow at great paces compared
to those who batten the hatches and shrink. Always seek to
understand the problem before solving it.
[29:30] Look at the number of
companies that were created and grew prodigiously in the Great
Depression. The Great Depression was awful. The tech giants of
today did not panic during the dot.com bust. They doubled down and
grew. There are opportunities all the time but if you’re fixated on
a solution, you will not see the opportunities that surround
you.
[30:39] Jim offers an audience
challenge: Pay close attention over the week. Listen twice as much
as you talk and listen for where you hear either yourself or other
people so enamored with a solution that they are missing the real
point of understanding the problem. If you recognize that moment,
redirect the conversation; ask a question to understand. You will
find a more productive outcome on the other side.
[32:03] Jan reflects that Jim’s
audience challenge will take temperance, self-discipline, and
self-awareness to understand your effect on other people. Jim and
Jan invite you to get in touch with your feedback on these Jim and
Jan episodes and suggestions for what subjects you would like Jim
and Jan to talk about next.
[33:18] Closing quote: Remember,
“It isn’t that they can’t
see the solution. It is that they can’t see the
problem.”
—
Gilbert K. Chesterton
Quotable Quotes
- “When we spend too much time talking about the
solution, the trap we fall into is that we limit the possibilities
for what the real solution could be because we’re not spending
enough time talking about the problem.” — Jim
- “What course of action is going to be the best
path toward the future?” — Jim
- “It goes back to the Fifth Discipline — what
Peter Senge wrote about systems thinking.” — Jan
- “I say to leaders, ‘What got you here is your
ability to see patterns … and make quick decisions. … But those
quick decisions are based on paradigms and biases. As a high-level
leader, you need to suspend that, have … an open mind, and figure
out what’s causing this.’” — Jan
- “Talk to
[new salespeople] about the problem that your product solves. Coach
them on the business problems people have with regard to your
product and solution.”
- “We need to talk about process and task
conflict and not personal conflict.” — Jim
- “Too many times, we look at a symptom and we
don’t realize — we think it’s the problem but it’s just the symptom
and … the real business problems are masked by those symptoms.” —
Jim
- “Everybody’s got blinders on.” — Peter Drucker,
quoted by Jan
- “If
you’re not the CEO but you want to be a really valuable employee,
think like a CEO.” —
Jan
- “We all know that scaling means you’re doing
more with less. Not because we’re working people harder but because
we’re getting smarter, we’re getting more productive, and we’re
getting more efficient. Not because we’re driving people like
machines.” — Jan
- “Look at the number of companies that were
created and grew prodigiously in the Great Depression. … You could
say times were different, but they’re not.” — Jim
Resources Mentioned